I’ve never met “Big Bad Dave Tate.” I have never even met Dave “Fuckin” Tate. Supposedly, he is some terrifying lunatic who would throw you through a wall for squatting less than 800 pounds in his presence or suck the brains from your skull if you looked at him wrong. At least that’s what I have read on the internet.
I only know the Dave Tate who I exchange hilarious daily emails, trade business and life advice, and, on many an occasion, drink a few too many beers with.
On a recent weekend in February, Dave was in Jersey for some business, and as usual, we got together for a few drinks and a lot of laughs. He also came to watch me train a group of athletes and told me afterward that he had never seen kids with better form before. This, of course, has nothing to do with the story—just a shameless plug I had to insert because it’s quite a compliment coming from the big man himself.
The morning after Dave and I partied till the wee hours of the night, I got a call from him. He was stranded at the airport, as the blizzard of ’06 was about to dump two feet of snow on the tri-state area. Without hesitation, I picked Dave up, and we made a quick stop for some supplies. Three pizzas, four bags of chips, two boxes of donuts, two liters of soda, and two gallons of ice cream later, we arrived at my house.
As the snow was piling up outside, we were watching the Olympics and decided to do an impromptu interview/Q&A session. There is no rhyme or reason or flow to the interview. It was just random thoughts tossed back and forth as we sat on the couch drinking beer and eating Doritos. Enjoy…
JF: What was the proudest moment of your powerlifting career?
DT: When I won the IPA nationals. I always wanted to win a national competition. Ever since I was a kid that was all I wanted to do. It was also the first time I squatted 900. It sounds stupid since there are a zillion federations, but I still wanted to do it. It was also the first time my total broke into the top 10 for my weight class.
JF: I once challenged a bunch of my high school athletes to a push-up contest and blew all of them away by at least a rep or two. So, I can definitely relate to what that win meant to you.
What’s your take on body part splits?
DT: Misunderstood. Most people don’t understand that all splits have their limitations. The benefit of the body part split is that everyone knows it and understands it. It’s easier to explain to most people than to tell them to do a vertical push and vertical pull.
JF: I know you think very highly of dynamic effort work and have said that it’s the most important of the three methods, but I’m going to have to disagree. Actually, let me qualify that statement. I disagree but agree to a certain extent. If we are talking about a novice lifter, I think that dynamic effort work as it is usually practiced—meaning speed bench, box squats, etc.—is the least important method and should be the last thing added into the training. I have worked with tons of young athletes and have never found that type of training to be of much benefit. I believe the repetition method comes first, followed later on by the max effort method. Finally, a little later down the road, we add in the dynamic effort method. I see no point in having a 135-pound bencher do dynamic work. I know you didn’t do speed benches when you were benching 135, and I know plenty of other strong guys who didn’t do this either until they got much stronger.
DT:Let me regress some by saying that the athlete needs to be ready to use the method in the form of the box squat and bench press (there are other movements that can be done with this method as well). By ready, I mean that they have to have good technique on the lifts for which they’ll be using this method. Here’s an example. Imagine someone who has terrible form on the squat. I mean the type of form that makes you cringe. This is bad for many reasons, but in regards to the dynamic method, other issues come to light. You can’t test them to see what their max is, and even if you did, it would not represent their true strength because the movement skill is so poor. Because of this, you have no way to even prescribe at what percent they should train. The goal of the first couple waves should be 100 percent on technique. This alone will add a ton of weight to what they can squat. After several weeks, their technique will become more locked in, and you can begin first by adding more weight and watching what happens. If they hold true to their technique with all but the last set, then they will be ready for dynamic training. Then, you start them with around 60 percent and see how this affects their technique. The reason I am such a big fan of this method is that one of the hardest things to teach is the ability to apply maximal force to a barbell. The sooner this skill can be learned the better. There are several other reasons I feel this is very important, but it would turn into a full article so I will stop with these for now.
JF: Now, here’s where I agree that the dynamic effort method is actually the most important. If we’re talking about young kids under the age of 12, it is actually the most important method to be used. However, this does not mean speed benches and box squats. In this instance, I am talking about jumps and throws and things like that. There are many qualities that are best developed when an athlete is twelve or younger, and the dynamic effort method is excellent when used during this time period.
DT: I agree that med balls, plyo’s, and other movements can and should be used. I feel this is also true for all ages when you’re working with athletes.
JF: What are your thoughts on mobility work?
DT: The pendulum swinging. You only need to train what’s weak in your athlete. It should be tested if it’s needed. If not, keep it out. People don’t have the time to do everything nor do they need to do everything.
It’s more important for the older lifter.
JF: I’m going to disagree with you there and say that everybody should do some mobility work. I think that unless you are outside running around and playing all day, you’re going to benefit from doing some programmed mobility work. Most people sit around at work or school way too much. They would benefit from at least a little mobility work in the form of a five to ten minute dynamic warm-up at the very least.
I believe everyone, regardless of what they are training for, should do some mobility work, some flexibility work, some strength work, and some energy system work. Obviously, the amount of this and the degree to which it is prioritized will vary widely from one person to the next. However, I do believe in training the whole package and in being well-rounded. I always want my client to feel good and be healthy, not just strong or big or fast or whatever.
DT: Once again, this is going to depend on whether or not it is a weak point. Many young athletes are out running around performing sport skills, playing racquet sports, swimming, and so on. My point is if they already have great mobility and are getting it else where, then it should not be part of the program. If you are doing strength work with your athlete during the morning before school and they have wrestling practice after school, should their wrestling practice include strength training? The main point is that for proper programming to happen, you need to look at what the athlete does 24/7. You may find that many qualities are already being addressed without your help.
JF: How about your favorite thing to see—stretching in the power rack?
DT: Keep your shit out of my rack. The power rack is the temple of the weight room. It’s made for going heavy. I can live with doing chins, but keep your curls and stretching and duck unders the hell out of my power rack. Okay, while this is all said in fun, I do feel many have lost sight of what the power rack was intended for.
JF: High frequency training?
DT: It has its place. High frequency training is a method, not a training system. It can be used for bringing up weak points. I’ve used this and recommended it, but the volume is controlled. I’ll use the empirical rule of 60 percent. Beginners can do it, but advanced lifters will overtrain quicker than hell. If someone needs to cut body fat, then sure, they can do high frequency training. If they need to get bigger and stronger, no way. Turn the dial because you’re on the wrong frequency.
It has its place for specific purposes.
JF: What’s the worst training gimmick?
DT: There isn’t one. All gimmicks have their place. Even a thigh master can be of some benefit for some one with a torn groin.
JF: What would you rather do—biceps and triceps, or squat?
DT: (Thinks long and hard.) Squats. Nothing’s better than a good pop off a box.
JF: I know that, much to Alwyn’s dismay, you love your arm days though. Speaking of which, how big are your arms?
DT: Over twenty one inches. I needed to get them measured for my bench shirt so that’s how I know.
JF: Dude, I just saw you measuring them in the kitchen before, but whatever you say. How does someone get arms that big?
DT: Train your triceps—tri’s for guys, curls for girls.
JF: Everyone’s going to want specifics so what should you do exactly?
DT: Board presses, floor presses, bench presses, close grip bench presses, rolling dumbbell extensions. I’ve always been a huge believer in push-downs for many reasons. They keep the triceps fresh and drive so much blood in there. They also are good for elbow health. I have always done some kind of press, extension, and push-down for as long as I can remember.
JF: What about bi’s?
DT: I’ve never been a big fan of bicep training even when I was bodybuilding. I always started with something heavy like a barbell curl. Then, I finished up with whatever I could do to get the most blood in there. If you want big arms, make sure to keep hammer curls in there. Cables never did much for bicep development so stick with barbells and dumbbells.
I think if you are training for big arms, direct arm work is a must. If you are doing a lot of pulling and rows already, then your bicep work is going to have to be mostly isolation work.
Unless the person is a bodybuilder, I have never programmed a bicep movement into a workout. In the same respect, I have never put in a calf movement or a forearm movement, and very few quad movements or direct quad movements unless it’s a step-up. But, I don’t know what they are considered. I consider them hip dominant.
JF: Well, it depends on the height of the box. If it’s a lower box, then it’s quad dominant. If it’s a higher box, then it’s hip dominant.
DT: True. So, revisiting movement pattern splits, it could be a vertical push since you push your foot straight down into the bench. Which makes me think, what is a leg press? Is it a vertical press since I am pushing into the machine? So should I do it on my vertical press day? Well, now I’m training legs three days per week.
If a step-up is not a vertical push, then what is a calf raise?
At least with the body part split, you fucking understand, “Oh, I feel it in my back. It must be back.” What the hell is a sit-up? What day does that go on? What’s a side raise? Is a deadlift a vertical pull or a hip dominant movement? If it goes on vertical pull day, now we’re training our legs four times per week. There is also a horizontal leg press as well. What day does that go on? What about a lying leg curl? That’s a vertical pull. So, now you are training your legs every single day.
Not only that, but quad dominant is not a movement pattern last time I checked my biomechanics book.
JF: What about a front raise, bent over rear delt raise, or, better yet, a reverse crunch? What days do they get trained on?
DT: Exactly.
JF: Before we get too far off on a rant here, let’s backtrack to arm training for a second. I want to get you to do what you hate doing: give a sample program for big arms. That’s one thing that every one is afraid to ask you, but would love to get your take on.
Sample workout 1: Strength athlete, 28 years old, six feet tall, 200 pounds, twelve percent body fat. Trains Westside style, wants to continue to train like that and get as strong as possible, but would also love to increase the size of his arms by at least an inch in the next 12 weeks. What’s he gonna do that might be a little different from typical Westside training, if anything? More bicep work? How much, etc.?
DT: Why are you asking this crap? You’re killing me.
JF: Because I know how much you love it.
DT: The answer is always as simple as the question. If they want bigger biceps and haven’t been training them, then add some bicep training to the program and see what happens. How many days per week? Who cares and who knows? Everyone is different. Try adding one movement, two times per week, and track what happens. If this doesn’t work, then change it. If that doesn’t work, change it again. As long as you keep tracking the progress and trying different things, then sooner or later you will get the results you want. That is, as long as you keep trying new things when something doesn’t work. The worst thing you can do is the same things over and over when it never worked for you.
JF: Okay, how about this one.
Sample workout 2: Recreational bodybuilder with the exact same stats as the first guy. Just wants to get huge and doesn’t care about strength. How should he go about training for big guns?
DT: Simple. Same as above, but eat more!
JF: I’m gonna throw a few names out there. You just say the first thing that comes to mind.
Alwyn Cosgrove?
DT: The evil Scot.
JF: Joe DeFranco?
DT: Hard.
JF: Coach X?
DT: Intense.
JF: Michael Hope?
DT: Extremely intelligent, a savior.
JF: CJ Murphy?
DT: The Stroke because it’s the perfect 80’s song to represent Murph. Every time I see him, I just about have a stroke, and I never know when he’s gonna pull down his pants and stroke it.
Seriously though, I would say he is one of the best trainers out there but is not as well known as he should be.
Big mind, big pants.
JF: I would have to say sick mind, sick pants. Murph is funny as hell though.
What’s the most important personality trait a coach or trainer must possess?
DT: Awareness. Going further than listening, you need to be able to understand the personality of the person you’re working with. If you’re working with someone who is motivated by positive reinforcement, you need to be aware of that. If you have someone who responds better to negative reinforcement, you need to be aware of that. You need to look at every client or athlete first as a puzzle and second as a person because you need to figure out what goes where. You need to know how to pick up on the simple things. At a recent seminar, I was teaching someone how to squat. I would tell her to sit back, keep the chest up, knees out, and so on. This wasn’t working so I had to look for reasons why the message wasn’t being received. I figured out that every time I gave a command, she would look at herself. If I said knees out, she would look at her knees. Right away, I knew I was using the wrong cues. Because she was a very visually oriented person, I had to change my commands to “picture your knees out” instead of “knees out.” After I did that, her head stayed up, and she used her mind’s eye to see what she had to do. This fixed the problem right away. If I hadn’t picked up on this, I may still be there trying to teach her how to squat. This isn’t rocket science, but basic communication skills are more important than people think. Coaching and personal training is nothing more than communicating training to the person that you’re working with. Everyone spends countless hours on the training aspect. But if the message isn’t passed from one to another, then it doesn’t matter how much or what you know.
JF: Favorite movie ever?
DT: Serenity, Any Given Sunday, Scarface. You?
JF: Braveheart, American History X, Glory, Boyz in the Hood. Anything with a message or that makes you think. Almost Famous and The Usual Suspects have to be in there also.
Favorite band?
DT: Santana, Garth Brooks, all jazz. I like listening to music outside of the gym that has a calming effect because I have a very aggressive personality.
JF: Yeah I hear that. That’s why outside of the gym, I can never listen to the metal and hardcore hip hop that I listen to inside the gym. If I could only pick one band to listen to for the rest of my life, it would be Pearl Jam. I remember the day their first album came out like it was yesterday. They have a great mix of heavy and mellow stuff. I have also seen just about everyone you could imagine in concert from Paul McCartney to Ice Cube, and I have to say that Pearl Jam is one of the best live bands out there.
What about your favorite rapper?
DT: Umm, I was into DMX big time for a while, but I’m sick of him now. Maybe Jay-Z? No, I think I’d have to go with The Notorious B.I.G.
JF: Ah, surprisingly good answer. Though, next time you’re gonna wanna just say Biggie. That way you sound a little cooler.
DT: Got it. You’re the rap guy anyway. Who’s on the top of your list?
JF: I gotta go with Public Enemy and A Tribe Called Quest. Outkast is one of the best ever; Biggie’s definitely up there. Basically anything from ’88 to ’92 like Naughty by Nature, Run DMC, Big Daddy Kane, De La Soul, Gang Starr, Eric B. and Rakim, Cypress Hill, Nice & Smooth, and NWA. I would also have to add Eminem to that list, although I hate to admit it because it’s such a mainstream thing to say. The fact of the matter, though, is that Em is one of the best lyricists ever.
Favorite song?
DT: The Dance, Garth Brooks. There are others, but it always changes. That’s the one that comes to mind right now and is always on the list.
JF: Never heard it, but I’ll have to check it out. This is a topic I could talk about for hours. A few of my all time favorites are:
Redemption Song, Bob Marley
Simple Man, Bob Seger
Interstate Love Song, Stone Temple Pilots
Hunger Strike, Temple of the Dog
The Kids Are Alright (live version as they’ve performed it the last several years), The Who
Baba O’Reily, The Who
London Calling, The Clash
Over The Hills and Far Away, Led Zeppelin
Fortunate Son, Creedence
Footsteps, Pearl Jam
Indifference, Pearl Jam
Nothingman, Pearl Jam
Lowlight, Pearl Jam
State Of Love and Trust, Pearl Jam
Rearview Mirror, Pearl Jam
Rosa Parks, Outkast
Award Tour, A Tribe Called Quest
DWYCK, Gangstarr and Nice & Smooth
It’s so hard to narrow it down.
Ok, new topic. What’s your favorite oral?
DT: Vitamin C.
JF: Favorite way to smoke weed?
DT: Can’t answer that one. I don’t smoke weed.
JF: I know you love apples though.
Who is the hottest chick on the planet?
DT: I could go the Cosgrove route and say my wife, who I love and respect tremendously, but I live in the real world and fantasize like any other guy. I gotta say Angelina Jolie.
JF: I’m not a huge fan. There are so many, but I might have to still go with the old stand by, Carmen Electra. I’ll never forget the time she came out onstage at the MTV Spring Break wearing a belt and almost nothing else. That was an amazing sight. I also have a thing for Ciara and Christina Millian.
Do you prefer blondes or brunettes?
DT: Blondes.
Recently, I saw you fall on the floor in laughter at some one wearing a wife beater. Have you changed your views on wearing wife beaters in public?
DT: Absolutely not! Unless you’re loaded with tats, no way. Even if you’re jacked, unless you have a ton of tattoos, no way, you can’t do it. You can buy a fucking tank top. I have no problem with tank tops but wife beaters, no way.
JF: Hustler. Hardcore since ’74, just like me baby.
DT: Hustler.
JF: Sneakers or high heels?
DT: Tennis shoes. That means they’re low maintenance.
JF: If we’re talking about in the bedroom, I gotta go with high heels, but for every day wear or just going out to a bar, I’m with you 100 percent on the sneakers. There’s nothing worse than a high maintenance, girly girl. However, white sneakers would negate that completely. There’s actually nothing worse than white sneakers no matter who is wearing them. But I do like a girl in jeans and sneakers.
Diesel or Carhartt?
DT: Carhartt.
JF: That works for a married guy in Ohio, but I’m single and live in New York so I gotta do a mix of both. What do you drive?
DT: Ford Excursion.
JF: Good choice. Gotta buy American. Speaking of which, let’s watch American Psycho. I’m too tired to speak or type any more, and I need another bowl of ice cream.
DT: Sounds good.
Dave Tate is the founder of Elite Fitness Systems. He has been in the strength and conditioning field as a coach and consultant since 1986 and has been involved in the sport of powerlifting since 1982. He has logged more than 10,000 hours of personal training and strength consulting sessions with novice to elite athletes. Dave’s best lifts are a 935 squat, 610 bench press, 740 deadlift, and 2205 total.